WEEKEND MUSIC PT. 72: IN CONVERSATION WITH BARAN KOK

WEEKEND MUSIC PT. 72: IN CONVERSATION WITH BARAN KOK

Interview by Victoria Nussbaum
Image courtesy of the artist

We spoke with German rapper Baran Kok, who released his first track in 2024 and has already drawn lots of attention within the German rap scene. Inspired by artists like Kurdo and Haftbefehl, he set out to make a similar kind of rap – only that instead of rapping about women, he talks about men. In this interview, we talk about his background, his creative approach, and the reactions his music has provoked.

Numéro Berlin: So yeah, the Haftbefehl documentary is coming out today, did you hear about that?

Baran Kok: Yeah, of course.

NB: What kind of role did rap or German rap play for you back in the day? How did you get into it?

BK: A big one, for sure. I still remember when “So wie du bist” by MoTrip came out, that era really shaped me a lot. That was around 2015 or so. I remember my cousin showed it to me, and we would always argue about who’s better – Celo & Abdi or MoTrip – like, really dumb comparisons. They’re just super straight, you know? I basically grew up with that. But at some point, when I discovered female rap, mostly American female rap, not even German at first (I don’t think there was that much of it back then) that really took over. Especially Nicki Minaj, actually.

So I kind of followed it from a distance, but I was like, whatever. And then at some point, I was just like, no, fuck you.

NB: When did you realize that you wanted to fill that gap – the lack of gay German rap?

BK: I always wanted to make music anyway, but it just wasn’t really possible you know with Kurdish family, immigrant family, and it was always like: you have to work, you have to become a doctor, a lawyer. My dad would always say, whenever he saw an artist: “Oh, that’s just an artist”. And I also had this image of artists like they live somewhere random, they’re dirty, they don’t shower, they don’t make money. That’s how I used to see it too, until I realized that you can actually make money from music. And I was always online, like since I was twelve. Always on social media. And that’s where I started seeing people post their stuff…

NB: …and gain reach.

BK: Exactly, you see so much more that way. And I was like, oh my God, maybe it’s not that stupid after all.

NB: And then you started performing as Baran Kok, and that’s your real last name too, right?

BK: Yes, that’s right, my name is actually Baran Kok. I did think for a while that maybe I should come up with another name, but then I thought, if your last name is Kok, you have to use it. It would be stupid not to. Then I moved to Berlin and I thought, you just have to do it. If you don’t, someone else will. Get your act together, make connections, find some random studio. I had always written down a lot of ideas, but I never had any links to studios, producers, anything, and making music is insanely expensive. But then I asked the rapper Souly, and he said, “Yeah, of course, I’ll help you.” And that’s how we made Traurige Hure.

NB: So far in German rap, it’s mostly been female rappers like Ikkimel or Nura who’ve rapped about being gay. Do you feel like there’s a development right now, that more queer rap is emerging in Germany?

BK: Yes, for sure, and that’s really good.

I’m not really doing anything different from what the other guys do.

NB: You just talk about guys instead of girls.

BK: Exactly. And instead of fucking women, I fuck men. But apart from that, I’m doing the same thing they do. They go hard, I go hard. They fuck, I fuck. They have money, I have money.

NB: In AMG Kanake you reference Nike Kappe umgekehrt by Kurdo. Did Kurdo inspire or influence you in some way? Or why did you take those specific lyrics from that song and rework them in your own?

BK: For me, Kurdo was like the first well-known visibly Kanak rapper. Especially because his name is literally Kurdo. Of course, there were also people like Farid Bang and Haftbefehl, but when I was younger, I didn’t really understand who among them was Kurdish and who wasn’t. And a lot of the time at school, Turks and Kurds would always kind of tease or argue with each other. So I thought it was crazy that his name was Kurdo, and I’m sure he also gets hate for that. I just found it really powerful that he called himself that. That was one thing. But I also just really like his lyrics and his songs, especially tracks like Nike Kappe umgekehrt. And the way he always includes Kurdish words. He keeps it real, not too Germanized. It’s very Kanak, really Kanak-style.

I already had this idea that I wanted to make a song called AMG Kanake, because I think it describes something really well, like Traurige Hure. I like those kind of label-like names. That was also my first session with a friend of mine named Skoob102, he’s part of the rap crew 102 Boyz. We wrote the song together, and he was like, “Okay, what’s your theme today?” because I always need a theme when I write. And I said, “AMG Kanake.” Then we looked for some inspiration, and I was like, I need to get on this Kurdo vibe. I want to be as asozial as him, not even asozial in a bad way, just Kanak asozial – but I know how that comes across to Germans.

NB: Did Kurdo ever notice or reach out to you about it?

BK: No, I saw him before the song was released and didn’t introduce myself. I just said, hey, I need a picture with you, I love your music. But he found out now. He was on stream and talked about how I took a picture with him, and he said he was surprised that I looked so normal. But I get what he meant, you know, because in his culture it’s different. They don’t know better. They don’t have anyone like me in their circle, and maybe they need to change that, that’s on them too. But I understand where he’s coming from when he says that.

NB: You mean he expected you to show up with full makeup or something?

BK: Exactly, and for him that’s what visibly gay means. I still had a handbag, but I don’t think he saw it. I had put it down. I know my work.

NB: In your songs you often play with these kinds of terms, like you just mentioned with AMG Kanake, or in that one song where you say something like “I push him away, call me AfD.” Is that irony for you some kind of coping mechanism, a way to process things or give them an ironic twist?

BK: I don’t think it’s really a coping thing for me. I mean, I am a refugee kid, yeah, but it doesn’t come from that background. It’s just because it’s funny and it fits. And sometimes it just rhymes well. I think it’s also just this thing of in my head, if you hate me as a Kanak, then just fuck off, you know?

NB: I also wanted to ask about your “locally hated” tattoo. You often react to hate messages in your stories in a really playful way and turn them around. Is it really true that it doesn’t bother you at all, or is that partly just part of your media persona, like you don’t let it get to you publicly?

BK: No, it really doesn’t bother me. I don’t even get that much hate. There was a short phase when I did get a lot, about a year ago. A guy filmed me at a concert and posted it on TikTok, and all you could see was my “I Love Kok” T-shirt. No one knew what that was yet, and no one got it. The video got two million views and tons of hate, like six thousand comments or something. And then he posted another one because the first one did so well, and that got around 1.8 million views too. That was a real wave of hate, but even that didn’t bother me. What bothered me more was that it was offbeat on stage. I was thinking, everyone probably thinks I rap like that, but the sound technician had turned off the monitors, so I was hearing everything with a delay.

NB: Where does that strong self-confidence come from, that nothing really gets to you?

I just imagine them sitting at home typing that stuff. Like back in that phase a year ago, there were people who even wrote out an entire prayer in the comments, and I was just like man, relax, who has time for that?

NB: So over time you just get a bit tougher?

BK: Yeah, you become hardened. And I also think when you’ve been closeted for a long time – I was closeted for a long time – you get to know yourself really well, you know? It’s not like I’ve only known I’m gay for two years or something. And I also think you can’t release the kind of music I make if you’re not confident. Same with Ikkimel. You just couldn’t do it otherwise.

NB: We already touched on this briefly earlier, but basically you’re doing what all the other German rappers are doing, except that you’re not rapping about women, you’re rapping about men. Could you talk a bit more about why you think it provokes such strong reactions and pushes people’s buttons so much?

BK: I think it’s simply because people aren’t used to it. They’re not used to hearing gay men talk like that. But I think they always have, actually. It’s just that through social media, it’s reached a lot more people now. You’re just scrolling on your phone and a gay guy is talking about dick. You know what I mean? Especially because of the algorithm, videos get spread everywhere now. Everyone sees them. And before social media, if your environment wasn’t like that, you probably never came across it, or only rarely.

NB: And for a long time it wasn’t really present in mainstream rap either. So you think it’s not necessarily about homophobia, but more that people just haven’t been exposed to it yet?

BK: Of course not in every case but yes maybe in some cases There are a lot of people who message me saying, “I have nothing to do with that, but you’re dope.” And I’m like, okay, he just never had a reference point or comparison before. And there really aren’t many comparisons. I didn’t have one myself, except maybe Lil Nas X. But to me, Lil Nas X is already almost pop. You know, that raw, asozial Kurdo-Haftbefehl-style German rap, but gay – that didn’t exist for me. And when it did, it often came with some kind of educational message behind it, which is totally valid and important, especially for the community. I just don’t want to do it, and when I do it, I do it my way.

NB: So you’re not really trying to approach it with a specific intention or message?

BK: No. If it happens, fine, you know? It’s not like I’m saying I’m not gay or I’m not queer, that’s not my thing. I am all of that. But for me music is also just about having fun. It’s not going to solve homophobia. The fact that I’m on stage and performing is already enough of a political statement. I just want to hear a track, go off, and lose myself in it.

NB: In your songs you’re very explicit about hooking up, your sex life and all that. How much of that is based on reality and how much is fiction?

BK: No, most of it is real. Of course, everything is exaggerated a bit – it’s art – but a lot of it is true.

NB: Do you feel like the gay community is very sexualized? Or that there’s a kind of romanticization of unemotional sex? And if so, why do you think that is?

BK: I think it’s because it’s not that easy for gay teenagers to have normal sex, or to even find normal sex. Everyone at school has their first girlfriend at sixteen, or some even at fourteen. Then they have their first relationship, their first breakup, and there are topics like “he hooked up with my ex, that sucks.” That doesn’t really exist for gay people, unless you’re lucky enough to have come out at thirteen and your whole school is okay with it. How often does that happen? So you stay closeted for a long time. And at the end of the day, gay men are still men. That’s the thing. They behave like men.

NB: But you think that’s kind of a reaction to not being able to live freely for so long?

BK: Yeah, I think it gets more intense because of that, and also through certain apps – we all know Grindr – it’s just become so normalized. But also because it’s only men, and nobody is really complaining.

NB: But you still have that song Traurige Hure – Sad Whore – and you even have it tattooed. Where does the “sad” part come from? Do you still sometimes struggle with that side of things?

BK: No, not really. I got into a relationship really quickly after moving to Berlin, that’s actually where the song comes from. But I also had this thing of wanting to live my life, you know, and so I ended it. And then we were in the studio, it was with Souly, and he was like, what’s the topic, and I said, I’m just sad. I was like I could totally be a whore right now because I’m single again, but I’m sad, I don’t get it. So I came up with “Sad Whore”. It just clicked.

NB: So you were basically just sad and not a whore yet, haha.

BK: Yeah, exactly, just sad, not a whore yet. I didn’t date for a long time, honestly like a year and a half. I wasn’t going on dates. I thought it was horrible, and I still do. I hate dating. I don’t mind meeting new people, I actually like that. But the effort behind it, I’m not gonna chase you, man. You know what I mean? Because we all know what dating in Berlin is like. It’s awful. I just don’t have the energy for it.

NB: And we’re already at the last question. In one of your songs you say, “Germany – they wish for Apache, I wish for an AMG Kanake.” You’re referring to what the audience wants from German rap, and with Apache you’re pointing to mainstream German rap, right?

BK: Yeah, what I mean is that for Germans, Apache is a “good immigrant.” That’s how I see it. I love him, though. It was never meant as a diss. I didn’t mention him because he’s taking over German rap or anything, but because Germans see him as one of the good ones. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be as big as he is.

NB: So, an immigrant, but still conforming.

BK: Exactly. His music isn’t explicit, he can make radio songs, he looks a bit exotic – that’s what they think. For me, he’s the symbol of that “one of the good ones” type. I’ve often heard comments like that in private, too. As an immigrant, you get used to being judged on whether you’re a good immigrant. And he’s the kind of person they can play on the radio. But I knew that’s not what I want.

NB: And what do you want then?

BK: An AMG Kanake.

NB: For yourself or for German rap in general?

BK: For myself.

NB: Thank you, Baran Kok!