ROCHELLE JORDAN: It’s interesting as I step into all these cities, you know, I’m bringing my particular energy right from this album. And I never know what I’m going to get in cities. Sometimes you can predict that they’re going to be all just like over the moon, super excited, but some cities, they’re literally sitting in the moment and just listening. And I’m surprised by that. So with Berlin, I didn’t have any expectations. I just came here thinking, okay, let’s just give them the vibe and kind of see what their reaction is. But I have a feeling that they’re gonna turn up. I have a feeling they’re going to be super excitable and I just feel good energy already just touching down so I feel like it’s gonna be a really crazy show. I’ve got a good feeling about it.

RJ: Exactly. Let it happen naturally. Let’s all just be here together.

RJ: Yes, I didn’t expect that. I’m one that definitely tempers her expectations. I do things with great intention in hopes that people can connect and can understand the musical language that I speak. But it really did hit home when I made all these lists at the end of the year. I was like, wow, you know, because the album essentially had just come out, it’s still very young. It’s only four months old and we still got so much to do. With the album and for it. So for it to have that kind of reaction, especially amongst all the amazing artists that also dropped their album on the same day was really, really incredible. So Yeah, I’ve had a couple of moments in my career where I’m like, Mama, I made it. Where it’s just a big reaction to different projects. But this time it feels really special. This time, it feels a bit different. It’s hard to explain, but I just think it’s the connectivity of all these people that are finding out about me. That’s probably what I’m feeling. Just everyone is talking about the project and connecting through the music. It’s a different moment and it’s a very special one.

RJ: It’s interesting because throughout the years I’ve played with so many different genres like R&B, essentially all the in-betweens of what R&B was in the early 2010s, you know, we’re coming out of the 90s sound into the early 2000 sound. 2000 sound which was very loud. It was very loud and very interesting and it was a transitional sound and in the 2010s it was whole new school of artists that were coming up that were just defining what would be us moving forward and the sound of R&B and all these beautiful genres. I’ve always written just to write. And I’ve always found it quite entertaining to write to music that’s a little bit left, not so on the nose. So if I’m playing an R&B, I like it to be different. If I’m playing in house music, I’d like it to be different.

That’s where I find the entertainment for myself as an artist. I guess whatever genre it is, I attack it the same way. It’s still with the intention to write a great story or just to pull up a really good feeling. So when the listener hears the music, they fall deeply in love. They feel a chemical rush in their mind or some kind of dopamine effect, deep inside their core, or in their soul. That’s the goal for me always. So I guess whatever genre I’m getting into or whatever it is that I’m feeling at the time, it’s the same process. Just like, how do I make this feel really good and how to make this make sense on this type of thing.

RJ: I thank God for my audacity sometimes. Sometimes I just don’t give a fuck. I think that’s the right approach for me. There are so many different pressures, like societal pressure to keep up with everyone, business pressure, and self-inflicted pressure. When it all hits me, I tend to retreat and retract, just feeling like I don’t give a damn anymore. That’s when I find myself either rebelling musically by taking a left turn so people can’t predict where I’m going, or simply going away and not posting on social media for a long time.

My last hiatus was very long, seven years between projects, but I was privileged to be an independent artist. When you’re your own boss, no one can really tell you anything. You’re just working for yourself, trying to figure it out. I learned so many lessons during that time away from the music business. I was always making music, but I had to learn about the business side, what it meant to partner with people, and how that dance really feels. Sometimes you’re with a team you think will take you to the next level, and they don’t. It takes time to identify who your real people are versus those who are only there for the moment but can’t actually help you. Those are hard lessons, and I was privileged enough to learn them when no eyes were on me. I needed that hiatus to go through all of that. And I’m happy for it. It felt awful at the time, I’ll tell you that. I was having health issues and business issues, and it seemed very chaotic, but out of that chaos came “Play with the Changes”, which was the project that followed that hiatus. From that point forward, I started moving at the pace I wanted. I feel like as artists, we need time. Time is one of the most important things in order to develop as an artist, your sense of self, resilience, and your own empowerment to understand the sharkiness and shadiness of this business. And also just to find your sound. All these things take time. Sometimes you need to go away in order to find yourself again, if that makes any sense. It’s an interesting process.

RJ: I was always making music and painting a lot, just like other artistic outlets, but music never stopped. In the seven years that I went away, we were still making some crazy things which you heard in “Play with the Changes”, even moving into “Through the Wall” as well. These were ideas that were born so early, in that time where I was just going crazy. We were able to repurpose them and make them into these songs, you know, so it’s always worth it in the end.

RJ: I think the reason why I’m able to engage with different collaborators in such a defined and assured way for myself as an artist is because I spent over a decade with my executive producer, KLSH. We developed my personal sound. Because we were so developed and knew the identity of the sound of Rochelle Jordan, which is KLSH Production, throughout the years we were able to engage with other producers in a way where they are coming into my world, they are coming into our world, versus me getting lost in theirs. We are always seeking out producers that also have originality and a strong identity. They are not just doing house music to be trendy. They are not just doing R&B music that is kind of passive. We are always searching for something with extra sauce wherever we can get it. When talking about Kaytranada, he is a producer with that sauce. Talking about Terry Hunter, that is a Chicago house legend. DāM-FunK, he is an LA legend. MPH is incredible in the UK garage and house space. It is just really unreal, actually, these guys that we’ve worked with. And then you have the Rochelle Jordan core sound through KLSH, so you can’t lose. You can’t lose when you understand the formula. There is only winning.

RJ: Yeah, I do. Interestingly enough, I would say “Pressure” and “Play with the Changes” feel the most like the UK to me. I would say “1021” feels like LA. My experience is just so ingrained in my mind with that city because that’s where we created it. And yeah, “Through the Wall” is similar. “Through the Wall” to me feels like all over the world, which is super fun. These projects define these eras so much for me because I’ve been doing this for so long and I was in a particular place in my life with each and every project, so I’m instantly transported back. For some of the earlier projects, I was just a baby. I didn’t know how serious this would get or the cult following that would be developed over the years. But yeah, there’s a lot.

RJ: Yes, exactly, exactly. My god, so much stuff had gone on with each project.

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RJ: Hmm, if I’m speaking honestly and transparently, it’s probably more something that I do to please the audience. I think that’s just the natural way of art, self, and humanity. Artists will never be the same as they once were because we are constantly evolving and changing due to life and the situation at hand. In the beginning, I was writing all the time just for fun because I had so much time. My imagination was going crazy and I was just writing my feelings, perhaps angry at the world, while now I am more strategic. I love to create songs that are smarter or just more relatable and easier to understand and consume. That is not so easy. The thought that you really have to come with it and make sure that it’s tight and sounds a certain way helps my skill. It helps me to challenge myself to think a little bit more. I am always going to write because I love writing, but it definitely is for my fans now. I think that’s something I have had to accept over the past couple of years too, that I am making music for people now even more so than for myself. When you enter the music industry as a fan, you hear a song and wonder how they did it. To a consumer, it is magic. Now that I am the magician, the trick is not magic anymore, if that makes sense. It feels different. It probably happened to all the artists I have ever loved, where I am overwhelmed with what they are giving me and they are probably just glad I like it. Their job is to give me that feeling more so than to give it to themselves. That is part of the purpose, and I am fine with that. Whether I am writing because I really feel this way or because I need to work on a new album, it is still part of the purpose. I accept the challenge because I know it is for the greater good of other people now.

RJ: Yeah, exactly. The truth is, I love the end result. It might be hard in the grit of doing the thing, but with the end result, I’m always like, ‘Yes, baby. Yes, yes.’ I am still feeling that way, so that’s good.

RJ: Yeah, I feel like most artists are. We’re kind of crazy.

RJ: It is very important. Visuals are one of the most important connectors for people that listen to music. They also want to see it. They want to be in the world sonically and visually. Throughout the years, I have definitely gone through my different eras. I was just talking to Chrysalis about it, a DJ that I roll with. I was grungy back in the day. I thought I was like the black Avril Lavigne,  just with big hair. Gosh, I was so experimental, with black lipstick, just very gothy. I went through that stage and the braid stage, just different times. Where I am now is more of a refined, seasoned woman in the industry, empowered, with the big hair, the class, and the chicness of it all. But all the times before, I wouldn’t trade them for anything. That is part of the growth, that is part of the development, and part of seeing yourself in different stages. I look back and reflect and it was cool. In the end, I am glad I did all that so I could come to this point now where it feels different, just like the music feels different. Now, I feel like I am very much centered. As far as visuals go, it was hard over the years being independent to deliver visuals because I didn’t have a major label to help me with the resources to really enter a world and shape the visual dynamics to reflect what was happening on each album. But we did a really good job of having people understand the visual world as well. Even if it was very minimal, we were able to pull it off in the right way. Now I am able to really push the visual energy with this particular album, which is really fun. I am finding it to be really interesting because it is just as much of an effort as it is to create the music. I am feeling excited about people seeing further in the year just what the visuals are and how they connect to this album. It’s actually really fun to create visuals, because it’s the same concept as the music. It has to be well thought out.

RJ: I think my advice came more through experience than being told something. We can be told so many things, especially when we are young, but you don’t feel how hot the stove is until you touch it. I learned at the end of the hiatus I went through that you have to remember why you’re doing this. Why are you making music? Why are you an artist? You have to remember the ‘why’. So often in the music industry, with people who have been there for a long time and want to support you, there can be a dance between the artist and a manager or a label that they feel can take them past the finish line. People in these executive positions understand that you are vulnerable because you are an artist seeking a team. At that point, a power dynamic issue arises. Because you are vulnerable and trying to build a team for yourself, you can fall victim to the power you perceive these people to have. You can start to feel inferior, as if you are the artist working for the label, or for a major producer, or for a manager. Then you lose yourself, you start to feel small, and you become a victim of the industry because people will take advantage of your vulnerability. They will take advantage of that because they see that they can. So you have to constantly empower yourself and remember that you are the artist. You have a manager, and they work for you. You have a label, and they work for you. You have a vision; don’t let anyone infiltrate that. I was very lucky to have KLSH by my side again so that we had two heads seeking out who was coming in with good intentions and who was coming in to take over a situation because they saw potential in it. They want it to be theirs instead of ours and what we developed. So yeah, that was a really valuable lesson, just to remember why and to continue to empower yourself and remember that you are the artist.

RJ: Yeah, so similar to what I said, remember the why. Remember why you’re an artist and what you came here for, like what your purpose is. I also think you should refrain from following trends. If you’re looking around at what everyone else is doing and what the fad is right now, you’re going to fall into the ocean and get completely swept up. You’re going to be another brick in the wall. You have to find something for yourself and find the originality within yourself. Making music is hard enough, so doing it because you’re following everyone else is going to be a very tough road.

Music is creation, it’s showcasing who you are and the gift that God has given you. That is the light you want to follow, and that’s the one that’s going to keep you making music every day. That’s what’s going to make you a happy person in this industry. So that would be my advice to newer artists coming up.

RJ: Oh, thank you, Sophia. I appreciate that.

RJ: See you there!